Cosmic Supremacy Forum » Suggestions » Corruption Reputation Morale Loyalty » Hello Guest [Login|Register]
Last Post | First Unread Post Print Page | Recommend to a Friend | Add Thread to Favorites
Pages (3): [1] 2 3 next » Post New Thread Post Reply
Go to the bottom of this page Corruption Reputation Morale Loyalty
Author
Post « Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Earendel Player-Rank: 2 Earendel is a male
Rules with an Iron Pinky


images/avatars/avatar-795.jpg

Registration Date: 16.02.2009
Posts: 1,293
Location: Guernsey

Corruption Reputation Morale Loyalty Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

This thread aims to provide a complete Corruption, Reputation, Morale, and Loyalty system for consideration for a potential XP galaxy. I've discussed these components before so I've got some good groundwork to build on. This is really about simplification, enhancement, integration and refinement.
Small blue text areas are specifics / equations that you can skip


Efficiency:
(The core values combined)

Corruption: As you get more planets your corruption increases. Corruption is a percentage that acts as a modifier directly on all outputs. If your Corruption goes from -10% to -5%, you know that your empire really is producing 5% more than it was before.

Reputation: A long-term modifier based on the morality of your actions in the galaxy. Reputation is a percentage that acts as a modifier directly on all outputs. If your Reputation goes from +10% to +25%, you know that your empire really is producing 15% more than it was before. Because of the way changes in reputation are handled, reputation can never go below -100%.

Morale: A short-term modifier based on your engagement in recent events. Morale is a percentage that acts as a modifier directly on all outputs. If your Morale goes from +50% to +125%, you know that your empire really is producing 75% more than it was before. Morale is always positive.

Empire Efficiency: A simple efficiency percentage that is equal to Corruption * Reputation * Morale.


Corruption:

The Corruption Formula:

Corruption = ((24 + Planet Count * Corruption Multiplier ) / 25 ) ^ -0.25

With a Corruption Multiplier of 1 (Default):
1 Planet = -0%
2 Planets = -0.98%
5 Planets = -3.64%
10 Planets = -7.4%
25 Planets = -15.48%
50 Planets = -23.73%
100 Planets = -32.99%
200 Planets = -42.2%
500 Planets = -53.26%
1000 Planets = -60.47%


Note: Corruption can never go below -100% even with excessive Corruption Multipliers.
(If you read my last thread on the corruption formula you will notice that this is VERY different. This way is much simpler because the reputation and Moral


Reputation:

Reputation is increased by attacking stronger players, and decreased by attacking weaker or committing Vile Acts, such as Bio-Bombing, of Exterminating Citizens.

A Reputation bonus is simply added to the current Reputation value:
+40% + +10% = +50%
A Reputation Penalty acts more like a multiplier:
-70% + -40% would not be -110%...
-70% + -40% = 0.3 * 0.6 = 0.18 = -82%
The reason for the negative multiplication is to stop a negative reputation from going below -100%. It also means that a vile act has a large impact on a high reputation.

If the galaxy specifies a Reputation Half-life, positive and negative reputation will gradually fade towards 0. The default would be 250 turns, meaning it would take 250 turns for a negative reputation to go from -20% to -10%.

The Reputation bonus (or penalty) that you get from an engagement is based on your relative scores over the Score-Average-Period (10 turns) multiplied by the scale of the engagement. The scale of the engagement is based on the amount production value of assets that you destroy vs the assets that player has had over the Score-Average-Period.

There are few rules regarding Reputation:
You can never lose Reputation if you are the Defender.
That's it.

Reputation Gain:

Reputation Gain = Reputation GPPD * Percent-Destroyed

Reputation-Gain-Per-Percent-Destroyed = 0.1 * Diplomatic-Reputation-Multiplier * (Enemy Score - (Your-Score - Score-Break-Even)) / (Your-Score - Score-Break-Even)

Percent-Destroyed = Assets-Destroyed / Averaged-Assets

Assets: Assets mean score from ships, facilities, troops, citizens, & planets. It refers to the player's physical power within the galaxy. They are all things that can be destroyed.
Averaged Assets: Assets averaged over the Score-Average-Period. This is to stop unexpected reputation loss.



Morale:

Morale is a collection of event bonuses that your empire receives for participating in current events, aka, blowing stuff up. If your stuff blows up, people panic and work harder. If you blow other people's stuff up, your people celebrate and work harder. In a nutshell, activity increases productivity.

Morale modifiers are always positive, but they don't last very long. The duration is controlled by the Morale Duration custom galaxy setting. The default is 100 turns meaning the bonus fades by 1% per turn until the bonus has disappears after 100 turns.

Morale gain is based on relative scores over the Score-Average-Period (10 turns) multiplied by the scale of the engagement. The scale of the engagement is based on the amount production value of assets that you destroy vs the assets that player has had over the Score-Average-Period.

Morale Gain from Destruction:

Morale Gain = Morale GPPD * Percent-Destroyed

Morale-Gain-Per-Percent-Destroyed = Morale-Destroy-Multiplier * Enemy-Score / (Your-Score - Score-Break-Even)

Percent-Destroyed = Assets-Destroyed / Averaged-Assets

Morale Gain from Loss:

Morale Gain = Morale GPPD * Percent-Destroyed

Morale-Gain-Per-Percent-Destroyed = Morale-Loss-Multiplier * Enemy-Score / (Your-Score - Score-Break-Even)
Percent-Destroyed = Assets-Destroyed / Averaged-Assets

Assets: Assets mean score from ships, facilities, troops, citizens, & planets. It refers to the player's physical power within the galaxy. They are all things that can be destroyed.
Averaged Assets: Assets averaged over the Score-Average-Period. This is to stop unexpected reputation loss.



Wars:

Reputation and Morale are completely unaffected by who declared war, when the declaration of war was, or what the first battle was like. The important things are all calculated every turn:
> Relative Scores (using the Score-Average-Period)
> Averaged Assets (using the Score-Average-Period)
> Assets Lost
> Assets Destroyed (and by who).
> Who was the defender (only applies to reputation loss).


It will often be the case that in winning a war, your enemy is no longer considered a worthy opponent and you may start to to lose reputation by repeatedly attacking them. In such situations you mus judge whether the assets you would gain would justify the reputation loss. If you decide not to annihilate them it may give them a chance for a comeback, but it also gives other weaker players a chance to 'finish off the falling titan'.


Planet Loyalty & Output:

(Where all the values make a difference)

Efficiency: Efficiency (Planet Efficiency) is the final statistic controlling the output of that planet. Efficiency is based on Legacy, Propaganda, and Empire-wide-Efficiency. It is calculated in a very similar way to Loyalty. The only difference is that Efficiency is not improved by Quelling resistance.

Loyalty: The loyalty of the population as a whole is based on: Legacy, Quelling, Propaganda, and Empire-wide-Efficiency.

Legacy: This value is the average of the base loyalty of all the citizens. Legacy comes down to the population's genetic heritage, and your Public Relations with their race (viewable on the diplomacy Screen). The population's Legacy is very hard to change, and requires the introduction of your own race to the population (More info on Race later), or improving your Public Relations with the people of their race.
Note: A Planet that has always been yours will be at 100% Legacy.

Citizen Heritage: The loyalty of a Citizen is based on his Race, and your empire's Public Relations with that race. Your Public Relations with a each race would be viewable on the Diplomacy Screen. Public Relations are between you and the people (citizens) of that race, not their ruler.

Quelling: Quelling resistance is a short-term solution for dis-loyal planets. Quelling is achieved using stationed military to keep the population in check and provides a sizeable bonus to loyalty that does not accumulate over time. Quelling can prevent rebellion, but only while the troops are continually stationed there. Quelling resistance does not improve the the efficiency of the planet.

Propaganda: Propaganda is spread by Propaganda Offices and provides a long-term loyalty bonus that accumulates over time. Propaganda not only improves loyalty, but also efficiency. Propaganda continues to have an effect even after the sources of the Propaganda have been removed, although Propaganda does fade over time.

Propaganda starts with a Propaganda Output that is added each turn to the current amount of Propaganda on the planet. The current amount of Propaganda fades by 5% each turn, so there is an upper limit of Propaganda that can be reached with any given output (approaching 20 times the output value).

Note: The higher levels of Propaganda and Quelling are required to have the same effect on a larger population.


Planet Equations:

Efficiency = (Legacy + Propaganda) * (Empire Efficiency)

Loyalty = (Legacy + Quelling + Propaganda) * (Empire Efficiency)

Propaganda:

Propaganda Output = 10 * Propaganda Offices

New Propaganda = Old Propaganda * 0.95 + Propaganda Output

Propaganda Bonus = Propaganda / Population Count

Quelling:

Quelling = 10 * (Trooper Count * (1 + 0.2 * Average Rank) / Planet Population )^0.75


__________________
Cosmic Supremacy - It's not just a game, It's a life style.

This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Earendel: 20.10.2009 17:02.

19.10.2009 22:58 Earendel is offline Send an Email to Earendel Homepage of Earendel Search for Posts by Earendel Add Earendel to your Buddy List
Earendel Player-Rank: 2 Earendel is a male
Rules with an Iron Pinky


images/avatars/avatar-795.jpg

Registration Date: 16.02.2009
Posts: 1,293
Location: Guernsey

Thread Starter Thread Started by Earendel
Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

Rebellion:

Any planet with a Loyalty below 100% has a chance of rebellion. The chance is 1-Loyalty^0.1. That means 10% Loyalty = 21% chance, 50% Loyalty = 7% chance, 80% Loyalty = 2% chance.
When a planet rebels, The most disloyal citizen is removed and a number of 'rebel' troops are created instead. The number of troops is equal to the population count before the citizen was removed. All rebel troops are rank 0. Ground Combat ensues with the rebels as the attacks. If the rebels win, the planet goes to the empire with the strongest influence on the planet. If no other player have any influence, the planet goes to the nearest player with the lowest corruption*reputation.


Race:

Colonists from a colony ship are always of the race of the founding empire. When a planet is captured all citizens retain their race even though they have a new ruler. When a new citizen is created, his race is random - based on the balance of races on the planet. If the planet only has 1 race, the new citizen is always of that race.

You can introduce your race to the population balance using a colony ship. The colony ship does not increase the population (unless the population is less than the ship's crew), instead a number of alien citizens are converted to your race. This is called Racial Seeding.

Note: You always have maximum Public Relations with citizens of your own race.
Note: You can draft (for a fee) or exterminate (for free) citizens to decrease the balance of other races in the population. Extermination of citizens is a Vile Act that reduces your Reputation and Public Relations with that race.

If a planet's population is reduced to 0 (for whatever reason), when the population returns to 1 the new citizen will be of the race of the planet's owner. This may be the goal of the 'Exterminate Populace' approach, because the new population that grows back will be more loyal (although much smaller).


Public Relations:

Maybe it should be called Racial Relations or Racial Disposition?
By default, other races would have a disposition toward you equal to 50%. Troops and Crew killed as the result of your actions reduce the disposition by -0.01%. Citizens killed carry 10 times the penalty, and Bio-Bombing / Extermination increase the penalty a further 10 times.
EG: 6 citizens killed by bio-bombs = 6 * -0.01% * 10 * 10 = -6%.

If your empire has a sizeable percentage of citizens of that race, the Racial Disposition will increase by 0.1% until the Racial Disposition equals that race's percentage of your population.


Diplomacy Screen:

In the diplomacy screen you’d be given the new info that you would require.
Note: GPPD simply means Gain Per Percent Destroyed. If you destroy 10% of their stuff, you get 10 times the listed value.

Player 1 (50% of your score):
First Met: Turn 47, Planets: 30, Current Stance: Neutral, Public Relations: 50%, Reputation GPPD: -0.05%, Morale GPPD +0.05%

Player 2 (double your score)
First Met: Turn 47, Planets: 30, Current Stance: Neutral, Public Relations: 60%, Reputation GPPD: +0.20%, Morale GPPD +4.00%

Player 3 (10% of your score)
First Met: Turn 30, Planets: 3, Current Stance: Neutral, Public Relations: 5%, Reputation GPPD: -0.09%, Morale GPPD +0.01%



Galaxy Variables:
(to get the gameplay you want)

Corruption Multiplier: Acts as a multiplier to your effective number of planets for the corruption calculation. A multiplier of 2 means that your corruption will be at the level it would be if you had twice the number of planets. It is NOT the same as simply doubling the corruption, which your often push an empire's output below 0%. (Default = 1)

Diplomatic Reputation Multiplier: Acts as a multiplier to reputation that you receive from diplomatic events, specifically attacking stronger / weaker players. Set this value to 0 to make sure anyone can attack anyone without penalty. (Default = 1)

War-Crimes Reputation Multiplier: Acts as a multiplier to reputation that you lose from vile acts, such as Bio-Bombing, Slaughtering Citizens, etc. (Default = 1)

Reputation Half-life: Controls how long it takes for an empire's current reputation to be reduced by half. 200 would mean it would take 200 turns for one's reputation to go from -30 to -15. Set to 0 to disable. (Default = 250)

Morale Destroy Multiplier: Acts as a multiplier to to Morale you receive from destroying the assets of others. (Default = 1)

Morale Loss Multiplier: Acts as a multiplier to to Morale you receive from having your assets destroyed. (Default = 1)

Morale Duration: Your total empire Morale is based on bonuses from many individual events. The bonus from each event fades to 0 over a number of turns. This variable determines how long it takes for a Morale bonus to fade to 0. (eg, 100 = -1%/turn, 20 = -5%/turn) (Default = 100)

Score Break-Even: Influences the amount of Reputation you receive or lose when engaging other empires.

Score Average Period: This determines over how many turns a score is averaged for the purposes of score and asset calculations. (Default = 10)



Planet Example 1:
Population 25, Troops 12 rank 2, Propaganda Offices 3, Efficiency 90%
Legacy = 25/25 (Player You): 100%
Quelling = 10 * (12 * (1+0.2*2)/25)^0.75 = +7.42%
Propaganda = (600*0.95 + 10*3)/25 = 600/25 = +24%
Loyalty = (25/25 Legacy + 7.42% + 24%) * (1 + -10%) = 129.42% * 90% = 116%
Output = +16%

Planet View: Population: 25/25, Troops: 12, Loyalty: 116%, Output: +16%

Loyalty Tool-tip:

Legacy: 100%
25/25 x (Player You): 100% PR
Quelling: +7.42%
Propaganda: +24%
Pre-Corruption: 129.42%
Loyalty: 116%

Next Turn:
Legacy: 100%
25/25 (Player You): 100% PR
Quelling: +7.42%
Propaganda: +24%
Pre-Corruption: 129.42%
Loyalty: 116%

Planet Example 2:
Population 12, Troops 50 rank 3, Propaganda Offices 1, Efficiency 85%
Planet has just been conquered. One citizen if due to be created by next turn.
Legacy = 0/12 (Player You), 12/12 Player Skeksis: 35% PR
Quelling = 10 * (50 * (1+0.2*3)/12)^0.75 = +41.49%
Propaganda = (0*0.95 + 10*1)/12 = 10/12 = +0.83%
Loyalty = (35% Legacy + 41.49% + 0.83% ) * (1 + -15%) = 77.32% * 85% = 65.7%
Output = -34.3%

Planet View: Population: 12/25, Troops: 12, Loyalty: 65.7%, Efficiency: 65.7%

Loyalty Tool-tip:

Legacy: 35%
0/12 x (Player You): 100% PR
12/12 x Player Skeksis 35% PR
Quelling: +41.49%
Propaganda: +0.83%
Pre-Corruption: 77.32%
Loyalty: 65.7%

Next Turn:
Legacy: 40%
1/13 x (Player You): 100% PR
12/13 x Player Skeksis 35% PR
Quelling: +39.07%
Propaganda: +1.5%
Pre-Corruption: 80.57%
Loyalty: 68.48

The tool-tips for efficiency would be very similar.


If anything is unclear or could be explained better, let me know and I will update the original post.

__________________
Cosmic Supremacy - It's not just a game, It's a life style.

This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Earendel: 20.10.2009 15:27.

19.10.2009 22:58 Earendel is offline Send an Email to Earendel Homepage of Earendel Search for Posts by Earendel Add Earendel to your Buddy List
Profetius Eteus
Has Speed 5 Frigates


Registration Date: 16.10.2009
Posts: 41

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

Rebellion suggestion.

Instead of instantly defaulting to a neighboring city state, the planet should sit in a state of neutrality. Having Seceded from its mother nation.

A Mail message should be sent to the civilization with the most influence, or the closest player with lowest corruption "Requesting" that the empire come in and take control.

The nation contacts should be able to take ownership of the planet by landing troops (basically a battle against 0 troops)

The nation that was REBELLED against, should also be able to forcibly reclaim the colony by landing troops (a battle against x troops where x is a number determined by the loyalty level at the time of the rebellion)

This seems more realistic in my opinion.

__________________
==========================================================================
"Serves Soup on Colony Shuttles"- What ... you don't like soup?
"Wonders where that new Farmer came from " - I'm not wondering ... I'm staring at his mother ... daaaaaayummmmm
20.10.2009 09:54 Profetius Eteus is offline Send an Email to Profetius Eteus Search for Posts by Profetius Eteus Add Profetius Eteus to your Buddy List
Earendel Player-Rank: 2 Earendel is a male
Rules with an Iron Pinky


images/avatars/avatar-795.jpg

Registration Date: 16.02.2009
Posts: 1,293
Location: Guernsey

Thread Starter Thread Started by Earendel
Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

Hmmm...
The formula for the chosen player to rebel to, it should probably be corruption * reputation * publicRelations / distance.

Anyway, I chose defaulting to the nearest 'most liked' player, simply because... it's simple. It's probably not the best solution.

Ages ago I suggested having rebel planets, and your suggestion sounds like a step in that direction.

Instead of needing to send a troop ship, the 'invited' player could just right-click on the planet and choose [Accept Invitation]. If the invitation is not accepted after 5 turns (or some other number) the rebel planet could extend another invitation the the next most appropriate player.

Since it is a rebel planet, anyone could attack it without declaring war which is a good opportunity for the player that lost it to take it back. There are already rebel troops down there, plus whatever defences were left behind. For the original owner to take it back, it would be like conquering any other planet.

(Oh, and by Mail message, I assume you mean in-game client message, not an actual email.)

__________________
Cosmic Supremacy - It's not just a game, It's a life style.

This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Earendel: 20.10.2009 15:44.

20.10.2009 15:41 Earendel is offline Send an Email to Earendel Homepage of Earendel Search for Posts by Earendel Add Earendel to your Buddy List
Nongolf Player-Rank: 3 Nongolf is a male
Wins even when not in your Galaxy


images/avatars/avatar-1040.gif

Registration Date: 29.09.2007
Posts: 6,035
Location: Denmark

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

Sounds great Earl. So what do you call this new game? Wink

Seriously though, I've read it (happility skipping everything in blue), and it does sounds great to me. I'm not sure I'd call it simple, or even simpler, but it will be good to get rid of that loyalty/moral interdependency and naming confusion.
20.10.2009 16:42 Nongolf is offline Send an Email to Nongolf Search for Posts by Nongolf Add Nongolf to your Buddy List
Earendel Player-Rank: 2 Earendel is a male
Rules with an Iron Pinky


images/avatars/avatar-795.jpg

Registration Date: 16.02.2009
Posts: 1,293
Location: Guernsey

Thread Starter Thread Started by Earendel
Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

quote:
Originally posted by Nongolf
it will be good to get rid of that loyalty/moral interdependency and naming confusion.

Uh... you mean Morale? Are you saying people might get confused between Morale and Loyalty?

I'm using Morale as a word to contain a collection of event bonuses that motivate people. I'm not sure what else to call it. Motivation?
Lol, Dread maybe? That could work actually.

__________________
Cosmic Supremacy - It's not just a game, It's a life style.
20.10.2009 17:00 Earendel is offline Send an Email to Earendel Homepage of Earendel Search for Posts by Earendel Add Earendel to your Buddy List
Nongolf Player-Rank: 3 Nongolf is a male
Wins even when not in your Galaxy


images/avatars/avatar-1040.gif

Registration Date: 29.09.2007
Posts: 6,035
Location: Denmark

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

No, I meant the current mix-up of loyalty-bonus and corruption - that it's named differently according to whether it positive or negative. That's a really bad implementation in my eyes.
20.10.2009 17:04 Nongolf is offline Send an Email to Nongolf Search for Posts by Nongolf Add Nongolf to your Buddy List
Profetius Eteus
Has Speed 5 Frigates


Registration Date: 16.10.2009
Posts: 41

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

Post Edited: System Clarified.

There is natural room for something to directly ADD to Corruption.
There is natural room for something to directly SUBTRACT from Corruption.
There is natural room for something to directly SUBTRACT from Loyalty.
Propaganda and Military already ADD to Loyalty, but there could be room for more.

__________________
==========================================================================
"Serves Soup on Colony Shuttles"- What ... you don't like soup?
"Wonders where that new Farmer came from " - I'm not wondering ... I'm staring at his mother ... daaaaaayummmmm

This post has been edited 3 time(s), it was last edited by Profetius Eteus: 21.10.2009 11:06.

21.10.2009 03:57 Profetius Eteus is offline Send an Email to Profetius Eteus Search for Posts by Profetius Eteus Add Profetius Eteus to your Buddy List
Profetius Eteus
Has Speed 5 Frigates


Registration Date: 16.10.2009
Posts: 41

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

Post Edited: System clarified

__________________
==========================================================================
"Serves Soup on Colony Shuttles"- What ... you don't like soup?
"Wonders where that new Farmer came from " - I'm not wondering ... I'm staring at his mother ... daaaaaayummmmm

This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Profetius Eteus: 21.10.2009 11:08.

21.10.2009 05:30 Profetius Eteus is offline Send an Email to Profetius Eteus Search for Posts by Profetius Eteus Add Profetius Eteus to your Buddy List
Earendel Player-Rank: 2 Earendel is a male
Rules with an Iron Pinky


images/avatars/avatar-795.jpg

Registration Date: 16.02.2009
Posts: 1,293
Location: Guernsey

Thread Starter Thread Started by Earendel
Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

Post 1:

A: Production: In CS Production is not production of just anything. It specifically refers to Manufacturing.

B: Corruption: Corruption degrades Loyalty and Effitiency. It is much simpler to keep it as it's own independent variable. At the moments people only have a vague understanding of how corruption and reputation work. My suggestion makes it crystal clear - they are two values that get multiplied when used.

C: Loyalty: Correct

D: Planet Output: Whether you combine Reputation into Corruption, or just use them as separate values that combine in the end, you still have the situation where people would track both values. It's important for people tu understand what's going on and why. Also, by having reputation and a separate variable, it is easy to apply meaningful changes to that number. Right now the penalty for breaking a treaty is an arbitrary bad number. Reputation processed my way, you can target an exact penalty, eg: -50% output on all planets from what you had a moment ago.

E: I do not agree with what you wrote after the blue text other than there being room for more planet-specific bonuses / penalties.

Post 2:

A: The way I've organised the 3 core empire variables is very simple. You have empire-wide corruption which is easy to understand. You have Empire-wide long-term bonuses / penalties that you've picked up in the form of reputation, and you have short-term bonuses for participating in the form of Morale. Each one of those variable has a vital role to play. They should be viewable separate in a meaningful way.

Combining them into a final 'Efficiency' multiplier is just to make it easier to see them combined, and so there is only a single multiplier on the planet screen.

B: Race: If race is to be included at all (and it is now) it should be clearly visible to the player (which it is not). I agree that this does add the the perceived complexity, but I consider that a necessary evil.

C: Racial Traits: They are sometimes referred to as racial traits, but they are actually CIVILIZATION traits. They could be down to any number of factors, so for simplicity. Captured citizens should function like these of your own race.

D: That production tool tip example is incorrect whether you mean Production, Output or Efficiency.
Production would be the same as it is now, except it would use the planet's efficiency value as a multiplier instead of corruption.
Efficiency would be the same as the loyalty example I gave, bout would not include a quelling bonus.

E: Racial Opinions and Reputation are VERY different. If you're attacking a larger empire, you GAIN reputation and only that particular race likes you less. You can't just drop reputation.

__________________
Cosmic Supremacy - It's not just a game, It's a life style.
21.10.2009 06:07 Earendel is offline Send an Email to Earendel Homepage of Earendel Search for Posts by Earendel Add Earendel to your Buddy List
Profetius Eteus
Has Speed 5 Frigates


Registration Date: 16.10.2009
Posts: 41

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

My first post was merely me boiling down the current rules using (at least to me) less ambiguous terminology.

I'm also not trying to redefine, or explain your revisions, I'm merely boiling everything down to its core.
Concerning Reputation: I recommend breaking it into principle parts.

Reputation is essentially Rule Enforcement.

Currently Reputation is only delivered on the "First Significant Engagement"

Reputation: The entire purpose is to enforce game rules.
[]You get + Reputation for attacking players stronger than you.
[]You get - Reputation for attacking players weaker than you.
[]You get -(A LOT) Reputation for performing Genocide(see below)
[]You get - Reputation for exterminating citizen(see below)
[]You get - Reputation for Bio Bombing.

Genocide: completely wiping a player from the game.
Currently the guide warns against continuing attacks against a person once their score falls below your own, either through the loss of ships, or what have you. A large reputation deduction should hit against anyone who completely removes a player from the game.

Extermination: optional feature of killing other "races" on planets you just conquered. Outlines in Earendel's Race section.

Bio-bombing: pretty much already covered in vanilla.

I'm not going to even pretend I understand what you mean by engagement and score-average-period.

I'm noticing a lack of situations that can increase your Reputation aside from attacking superior players. Just a plug for another one of my ideas, perhaps the creation of anti-pollution building could give some reputation +.

=====

I think we both agree that Corruption is a constant that only grows and shrinks by number of planets in the empire.

=====

Racial

Civilization traits are applied to ALL civilians regardless of their race. Civilization traits are Empire encouraged focuses. Its got nothing to do if you were born with gills or not.

Race is currently already processed for Bio-Bombs. Resulting in a temporary Loyalty debuff.

More Proposed Racial variables: Every race (player) you have encountered will have an opinion of your empire. Specific attacks against a race will lower its opinion of you. This opinion matters greatly for the loyalty of this race currently citizens in your empire, and the loyalty of citizens who may be conquered in the future.

War Declarations, attacks, treaties, bio-bombing, extermination, can all affect a race's opinion of your empire.

=====

Morale

At the moment, I only see morale as a corruption fighter, encouraging a healthy level of fighting.

You get a bonus when you attack, you get a bonus when attacked, thus rewarding the empire for being active.

If we need a reward to keep players active, by all means reward away, but after rehashing the current system, and both of our viewpoints on a more detailed approach, I find morale ... superfluous ... its the "Do something" award. and seems to only reward military "somethings" What about colonizing a planet, do you get a morale boost for that? what about building that New Battleship, its big, its been cristened ... anyone wanna party? Finishing a technology?

I'd be much happier with Morale if we extended it beyond the realm of conquest, and instead applied it also to the other things that can "happen"

All in all I concede to your system, assuming that some work go into definition and naming everything consistently.

I apologize for my previous two posts, I'm sure they're going to confuse the hell out of people, but I understand what you're trying to say now.

__________________
==========================================================================
"Serves Soup on Colony Shuttles"- What ... you don't like soup?
"Wonders where that new Farmer came from " - I'm not wondering ... I'm staring at his mother ... daaaaaayummmmm
21.10.2009 11:04 Profetius Eteus is offline Send an Email to Profetius Eteus Search for Posts by Profetius Eteus Add Profetius Eteus to your Buddy List
Earendel Player-Rank: 2 Earendel is a male
Rules with an Iron Pinky


images/avatars/avatar-795.jpg

Registration Date: 16.02.2009
Posts: 1,293
Location: Guernsey

Thread Starter Thread Started by Earendel
Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

quote:
Originally posted by Profetius Eteus
I apologize for my previous two posts, I'm sure they're going to confuse the hell out of people, but I understand what you're trying to say now.

If you didn't get it the first time then things need to be clarified.

quote:
Originally posted by Profetius Eteus
I'm not going to even pretend I understand what you mean by engagement and score-average-period.

An engagement is a battle, so I'll just change it to battle.
score-average-period...
One of the big changes is that reputation modifiers are not just applied once. They are applied for each turn where there is a battle. I spotted a potential problem that needs to be avoided:
> An equal-sized enemy has a planet you want and a fleet near it.
> You decide to go after the planet because it's nice and you wouldn't lose any reputation for taking it. (it takes 2 turns to get there).
> The next turn, the enemy fleet attacks you, you win, and you get a negligible reputation bonus. (and a Morale Bonus).
> The next turn you take the planet (yay)... but oh, you've take a rep hit because the enemy's score dropped why you killed their fleet.
The score-average-period helps avoid that because a sudden score drop won't cause a sudden reputation gain/loss fluctuation.

__________________
Cosmic Supremacy - It's not just a game, It's a life style.

This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by Earendel: 21.10.2009 11:32.

21.10.2009 11:31 Earendel is offline Send an Email to Earendel Homepage of Earendel Search for Posts by Earendel Add Earendel to your Buddy List
Profetius Eteus
Has Speed 5 Frigates


Registration Date: 16.10.2009
Posts: 41

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

Why are we applying reputation changes each turn?

__________________
==========================================================================
"Serves Soup on Colony Shuttles"- What ... you don't like soup?
"Wonders where that new Farmer came from " - I'm not wondering ... I'm staring at his mother ... daaaaaayummmmm
21.10.2009 16:09 Profetius Eteus is offline Send an Email to Profetius Eteus Search for Posts by Profetius Eteus Add Profetius Eteus to your Buddy List
Earendel Player-Rank: 2 Earendel is a male
Rules with an Iron Pinky


images/avatars/avatar-795.jpg

Registration Date: 16.02.2009
Posts: 1,293
Location: Guernsey

Thread Starter Thread Started by Earendel
Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

quote:
Originally posted by Profetius Eteus
Why are we applying reputation changes each turn?

A reputation change only happens when you destroy assets. The reputation gain / loss that you would recieve from the action is updated each turn to:

To prevent reputation trading.

To keep the reputation bonus proportional to your action.

To reward a 'real' continuous assault against a larger player instead of a single token show of force.

To remove a reputation bonus when the enemy is no longer a worthy adversary (genocide has a price).

__________________
Cosmic Supremacy - It's not just a game, It's a life style.
21.10.2009 16:17 Earendel is offline Send an Email to Earendel Homepage of Earendel Search for Posts by Earendel Add Earendel to your Buddy List
Profetius Eteus
Has Speed 5 Frigates


Registration Date: 16.10.2009
Posts: 41

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

Thoughts on Morale also having bonuses from events other than fighting?

__________________
==========================================================================
"Serves Soup on Colony Shuttles"- What ... you don't like soup?
"Wonders where that new Farmer came from " - I'm not wondering ... I'm staring at his mother ... daaaaaayummmmm
21.10.2009 16:34 Profetius Eteus is offline Send an Email to Profetius Eteus Search for Posts by Profetius Eteus Add Profetius Eteus to your Buddy List
Earendel Player-Rank: 2 Earendel is a male
Rules with an Iron Pinky


images/avatars/avatar-795.jpg

Registration Date: 16.02.2009
Posts: 1,293
Location: Guernsey

Thread Starter Thread Started by Earendel
Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

In general, sure.

For colonisation, it sounds like it would make sense, I mean realistically people would be happy. The problem is that in a colonisation phase, colonisation has plenty of reward already. A skilled player usually gets a large advantage and increasing that advantage more would probably make a short one-sided game. On that basis, I'd have to say no Moral Bonus for colonisation.

__________________
Cosmic Supremacy - It's not just a game, It's a life style.
21.10.2009 16:41 Earendel is offline Send an Email to Earendel Homepage of Earendel Search for Posts by Earendel Add Earendel to your Buddy List
DarkStar Player-Rank: 1 DarkStar is a male
Puts Shields on Colony Ships


images/avatars/avatar-680.gif

Registration Date: 08.10.2009
Posts: 127
Location: Western Australia - AUS

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

just a......question - when you place production, science, mining and wealth generation ahead of food production there-by placing the food production into red for say - a single tick, meaning a depletion of the food generated that tick,

.....does your corruption + or reputation, increase or decrease respectively, when you starve the food box, are you then involved in slavery for the sake of production*other... Roll Eyes

__________________
Mad or Evil
21.10.2009 17:25 DarkStar is offline Send an Email to DarkStar Search for Posts by DarkStar Add DarkStar to your Buddy List
Earendel Player-Rank: 2 Earendel is a male
Rules with an Iron Pinky


images/avatars/avatar-795.jpg

Registration Date: 16.02.2009
Posts: 1,293
Location: Guernsey

Thread Starter Thread Started by Earendel
Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

There would be no adverse effects for a food shortage providing there is no starvation. A single turn of food shortage would probably not cause starvation.

If there is a food shortage and there IS starvation, you have caused the death of a citizen. If it's an alien citizen that dies, that race will like you less. Unlike exterminating the citizens directly, starvation wouldn't cause a reputation loss because it might not be your fault.

__________________
Cosmic Supremacy - It's not just a game, It's a life style.
21.10.2009 18:23 Earendel is offline Send an Email to Earendel Homepage of Earendel Search for Posts by Earendel Add Earendel to your Buddy List
DarkStar Player-Rank: 1 DarkStar is a male
Puts Shields on Colony Ships


images/avatars/avatar-680.gif

Registration Date: 08.10.2009
Posts: 127
Location: Western Australia - AUS

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

quote:
Originally posted by Earendel
There would be no adverse effects for a food shortage providing there is no starvation. A single turn of food shortage would probably not cause starvation.

If there is a food shortage and there IS starvation, you have caused the death of a citizen. If it's an alien citizen that dies, that race will like you less. Unlike exterminating the citizens directly, starvation wouldn't cause a reputation loss because it might not be your fault.



Thanks... Neutral

__________________
Mad or Evil
21.10.2009 18:58 DarkStar is offline Send an Email to DarkStar Search for Posts by DarkStar Add DarkStar to your Buddy List
dedzy Player-Rank: 2
Scouts his own Systems


images/avatars/avatar-679.jpg

Registration Date: 22.08.2009
Posts: 69

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

I like the ideas you suggest, Earendel. Maybe something like this can be tested in an XP galaxy.
25.02.2010 02:51 dedzy is offline Send an Email to dedzy Search for Posts by dedzy Add dedzy to your Buddy List
Pages (3): [1] 2 3 next » Tree Structure | Board Structure
Jump to:
Post New Thread Post Reply
Cosmic Supremacy Forum » Suggestions » Corruption Reputation Morale Loyalty

Forum Software: Burning Board 2.3.6, Developed by WoltLab GmbH