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DarkLStrike Player-Rank: 3
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Ship class advantages and Light ship balancing Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

Please read from top to bottom, thanks Big Grin You can skip the Ship Analysis part if you don't want to read

Well, let's face it; there is absolutely no use for light ships in later stages of a game. People could just mass cruisers and battleships and eventually overrun and overpower their enemies. It is simply not realistic and it takes out a lot of strategy, and perhaps fun, out of this game. What I am proposing here is to add firepower bonuses on a ship class when attacking another specific ship class. It would introduce light ships once again into the game, even in later stages. And a fleet would have to be balanced with every ship class available to be powerful.

Ship Analysis :

Shuttle/Fighter Class: Used mostly as a scout or a troopship in most cases, this tiny one-manned vessel is often deployed to support the larger combatants in a battle. It cannot withstand much punishment but its fast and can wield a lot of firepower. Larger ships such as cruisers and battleships will have a hard time targeting such a small object. It does not have a very significant role in major battles therefore has no firepower bonuses.

Corvette Class (with at least Tachyon Scanners researched): This small star ship can be used for just about anything. Its as fast as a fighter and can hold its ground against other small vessels. Just like the fighter, its not durable but has a large amount of firepower ratio. It can be outfitted as a torpedo boat to wreak havoc to the heavier ships as well as a gunboat to counter the lighter ones. Furthermore, the corvette is armed with the most state of the art targeting system and therefore a major menace to the Fighter Class. It receives 10% firepower increase towards Shuttle/Fighter Class.

Frigate Class (with at least Proton Physics researched): Frigates are made for quick strikes and fast raids. The Frigate Class is used primarily in ship verses ship combat as a counter against the larger ships thanks to its heavier weapons. But unfortunately, due to its small size, similar to other light vessels, cannot withstand a lot of firepower. Frigates receive 10% decrease towards fighters, 20% firepower increase against Destroyers, 35% firepower increase against Cruisers and 45% increase against Battleships.

Destroyer Class (with at least Proton Physics researched): The destroyer class is made to support the larger capital ships of a fleet. Fitted with the best targeting and tracking systems available, its designed to root out and destroy the smaller and faster enemy ships while the capital ships handle the major combatants of the other fleet. Destroyers receive 20% firepower decrease towards Fighter Class, 15% firepower increase towards Corvettes and 20% firepower increase towards Frigates.

Cruiser Class (with at least Dark Matter Control researched): This ship class is the backbone of the fleet. Armed with highly damaging cannons and torpedoes, it is made to counter the heavy ships of the enemy. One full volley of its weapons can render the most sophisticated destroyers into space dust. The only downside to this vessel is without short range lasers and scatter missiles; the Cruiser Class is very vulnerable to smaller combatants such as Corvette and Fighters. Cruisers receive 75% firepower decrease towards Fighter Class, 60% firepower decrease towards Corvette Class, 25% firepower decrease against Frigate class, 10% firepower increase towards Destroyer Class, 5% firepower increase against fellow Cruiser class and 10% firepower increase towards Battleship Class.

Battleship Class: This is the capital ship of any fleet, the most powerful vessel and flagship of the navy. Shooting down ships of this class is almost impossible. It can withstand punishment from three separate cruisers for one hour and will not fall. However, due to its enormous size, its a rather tasty target for the smaller vessels. Battleships receive 90% firepower decrease towards Fighter Class, 75% firepower decrease towards Corvette Class, 35% firepower decrease towards Frigate class, but 20% firepower increase towards Cruiser Class.


* The tech prerequisites after each ship classes are required so it wont affect the early game that much. Since a player with corvette class can easily overpower a player who only has fighters in the beginning. To gain the positive bonuses you must complete the tech requirements, but the negative bonuses will still apply even if you dont have that tech.


Firepower bonuses summary :

Shuttle/Fighter: none

Corvette:
+10% vs Shuttle/Fighter.

Frigate:
-10% vs Shuttle/Fighter,
+20% vs Destroyer,
+35% vs Cruiser,
+45% vs Battleship.

Destroyer:
-40% vs Shuttle/Fighter,
+15% vs Corvette,
+25% vs Frigate.
Cruiser:
-75% vs Shuttle/Fighter,
-60% vs Corvette,
-25% vs Frigate,
+10% vs Destroyer,
+5% vs Cruiser,
+10% vs Battleship.

Battleship:
-90% vs Shuttle/Fighter,
-75% vs Corvette,
-35% vs Frigate,
+20% vs Cruiser.

Firepower Bonus Analysis:

Fighter Class combat ships can be used to counter a fleet full of heavy class ships (best against Cruisers and Battleships only), but be sure to outnumber them by at least 8:1.

Corvette Class is used to counter the Fighters of the enemy.

Mass Frigates can easily overpower a number of Cruisers and Battleships without Destroyer escort.

Destroyers are there to protect the Cruisers and Battleships from Frigates.

Cruisers are made to counter Destroyers and Cruisers of the enemy.

Battleships are for destroying Cruisers.

Further note:
Damage bonuses are subject to change and will be balanced if found unfair in some cases. This bonus system is to prevent a player from spamming only one type of ship and encourage players to build different classes and will introduce more strategy into this game. Big Grin

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This post has been edited 4 time(s), it was last edited by DarkLStrike: 08.03.2007 03:25.

08.03.2007 02:36 DarkLStrike is offline Send an Email to DarkLStrike Search for Posts by DarkLStrike Add DarkLStrike to your Buddy List
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Ship class advantages and Light ship balancing Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

Nice...

And using this there could be a Carrier module.

The Carrier (Battleship only) could give a combat bonus to any Shuttle/Fighters and Corvettes in the fleet

This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by The Blind: 08.03.2007 03:15.

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Genious. Very well though out.

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I sure hope erwin implements something like this into the game.
08.03.2007 06:18
Erwin [CS] Player-Rank: 2 Erwin [CS] is a male
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That's very nice stuff indeed, thanks DarkLStrike! Essentially it just means how effective firepower of one ship-class against another ship-class is. That should not be too hard to implement. However, I can't do it right away, and I certainly want to think more about possible implications, like... the game is becoming too much fun/addictive and what impact does that have on the player...? Kidding Wink

More comments on that topic are welcome!
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quote:
Originally posted by Erwin [SC]
That's very nice stuff indeed, thanks DarkLStrike! Essentially it just means how effective firepower of one ship-class against another ship-class is. That should not be too hard to implement. However, I can't do it right away, and I certainly want to think more about possible implications, like... the game is becoming too much fun/addictive and what impact does that have on the player...? Kidding Wink

More comments on that topic are welcome!


If you implement stuff liek this I DEMAND you add reference charts to the Manual. Hell there is a lot of stuff you should add, like I don't even know which ships are light and which are heavy :/

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I think this concept is hardly compatible with current ship-design system. Firepower bonuses have sense if weapons is predetermated for for each ship-class. But here we can install weapons that mainly targets light classes on heavy ship and and vice versa. You see: cruisers can use "short range lasers and scatter missiles" too and frigates don't use only "heavier weapons" in this game.

Ok ballance is not perfect, but in new galaxies heavy ships require more crew, so light ships will be more usefull. I think there is many other ways to make light-class ships better, like
1) increasing repearing speed of light-class ships;
2) increasing effectiveness of cloaking device;
3) increasing specialization of weapon types, so they will be only 25-30% effective against opposite class type;
4) new admiral rules ("Follow <specific ship/fleet> at <specific range>", "Flee from hostile <ships>/<fleets> at minimum <specific range>");

I see the future of light ships (mainly frigates) as ships "for quick strikes and fast raids" too. In later stages frigates could easily have speed more than 40 u/t with reasonable firepower. Usual speed of battleships and cruisers <30 u/t so they will never cach figates. They are perfect for cutting off reinforcement tail of big fleet. Thre is only one problem - you must always be online to use this tactic (thats why new rules are needed - to be used with intercept rule of assault admiral).
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I like it very much. It's a great adaption of extended rock-paper-scissors concepts to this game, and it would allow a greater degree of ship design/forsight.
Just an idea: perhaps cloaking and/or speed could have a minor affect on combat?

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quote:
Originally posted by Kazagistar
It's a great adaption of extended rock-paper-scissors concepts to this game


This game have "extended rock-paper-scissors" concept already!

See Ship+Weapon:

Light+Light < Heavy+Light < Heavy+Heavy < Light+Heavy < Light+Light

It is just not properly ballanced. Just imagine how strong frigates will be aginst cruisers with WI weapon, when efficiency of hevy wepons agains frigates will be only 25% or less.

This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Rismagi: 08.03.2007 16:13.

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I agree with Rismagi. We already have the rock-paper-scissors concept. Just needs some balancing.
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No, this is a good suggestion. Later in the game, there will be little use to use ship designs that aren't Frigates or Battleships, the best of their class. There should be incentives to use Corvettes and even Shuttles in battle, as well as Destroyers.

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Does anyone use cloaking?

I designed a few frigates with cloaking, but I didn't even produce a single one. I think it is because the cloaking device has so many units (and boosts the production a lot) that I can not fit very effective weaponry.

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Not a lot, cloaking needs to be tweaked a bit, since it takes up so much valuable space for weapons and shields and slows the ship down too much. Most people doesn't care if the enemy detects the light ship or not since attacking with purely light ships will fail in later games.

I use some cloaked shuttle class ships with hyperspace scanners as cloaked radars to acquire information on the enemy without them detecting me though.

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Actually I like the idea of firepower bonuses, it is more flexible than "rough" light-heavy model. But I think it contradict the idea of "free design" where players choose purpose of the ship by himself.

quote:
Originally posted by Umballer
There should be incentives to use Corvettes and even Shuttles in battle, as well as Destroyers.


I think to make Corvettes & Frigates be usable in full scale battles, speed must have effect on combat.
You see, it doesn't mater if Proton Laser is instelled on cruiser or Destroyer, it will have same efficiency against frigates. But destroyer and frigates can have more speed. The idea - it is hard to hit faster ship with heavy weapon. So if we use firepower reduction by speed like:

(attack_ship_speed - def_ship_speed)^0.2 *100% for light
(attack_ship_speed - def_ship_speed)^0.5 *100% for heavy

cruisers with 30 u/t will be 13% less effective than destroyers with 40 u/t against frigates (40 u/t) (*for example)

If sombody doubt that light ships are much better than heavy in high speeds - try designs of corvette and cruiser at speed around 50-60 u/t

Well, I am sure that it is imposible to add it to the current combat algoritm. So I suggest it to the future, I think greater specialization of weapon types is enogh for now.

One more thing: rock-paper-scissors concept will not work until heavy type weapon is beter than light type even aginst light ship, as it is now. But it is another story...

quote:
Originally posted by quickstrike
Does anyone use cloaking?


I used corvettes as cloaked scouts too. On some planets I built few frigates as cloaked guard, but that was only production wastage Neutral
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I like this idea but I think it might be easier to understand if presented as a defense modification [as oppsed to a firepower mod]

The reason for this is when I think of a ship size and agility affecting the damage it receives/does I don't imagine the guns getting more/less powerful but that the shots are more/less likely to hit.

But its all the same... thats just the way my head works [or doesn't Red Face ]

Hmmm.... And after a good 2 min stare at the form... I think I'll think before I say more than that... Smile

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