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Licho Player-Rank: 2
Arms Farmers, and Farms Armor


Registration Date: 26.02.2006
Posts: 79

Licho's guide - the way I play Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

General rules:
==============
- think economically, calculate benefits vs. costs and return times. For example, when deciding whether is it worth to build another university, take investment return time into account (if I switch planet to workers now for 10 turns to get that uni, after how many turns will added benefit of university outweight research lost while building it). Compare return time to the actual needs (do I need to research something quickly? Will added benefit of new research help my economy? Do I need new tech for war machine now?).

- in the early times prefer maximum growth speed (if you have time to manually change population, calcuate the path of fastest growth- that usually means manually switching between all farmers and all workers to get fastest growth on the very first planets). The point is to get next economic benefit ASAP (economic benefit = extra citizen or extra farm/economic structure)

- never stop expanding. If you still see empty planets, keep building colony ships. If you don't have empty planes, choose the path of war.

- keep scouting/scanning. Know your galaxy.

- check prices of buildings properly. First 3 instances of some structure cost c*(x-1) where x is number of buildings of the same type and c is initial value.
Further buildings cost 3*c*(x-2) and this probably increases even more in future. So first 3 buildings are most efficient.
If you want to add 5th or 6th structure of some kind do not use larger variants (auto fact or research lab) but use smaller variants.
Because it is much cheaper in investment / gain per worker ratio and you have to favor growth speed and not capacity (larger variants are more efficient in max. capacity achievable per planet).
These are prices of some basic structure in costs per per worker gain (mulitply autofact * 2 to get actual price):

Factory - autofactory:
1.) 40 - 100
2.) 80 - 200
3.) 120 - 300
4.) 240 - 600
5.) 360 - 900
6.) 480 - 1200
5.) 600 - 1500
You get my point, autofact is more efficient than factory only in some range, but there is usually no point building say more than 5 autofacts.
Also sometimes it's more worth to build less efficient structure if its going to be up faster, for example it's better to build 3.) factory before 1.) autofact, because 3.) factory is going to be up sooner (120 cost) than 1.) autofact (200)

Similar comparsion for University - Research lab:
1.) 70 - 150
2.) 140 - 300
3.) 210 - 450
4.) 420 - 900
5.) 630 - 1350
6.) 840 - 1800


Researching:
============
- in the long term, it's most efficient to research expensive techs first. So go deep into the tree, if you can. Obviously the economic paths are automated factories and research labs. If you are not at large scale war I recommend this path:
Start with either Advanced network (uni) or Astro engineering (factory) to get economic returns.
Then improve engines (preferably down to quantum).
Then either robotics (auto factory) or artifical intelligence (science lab) to get further economic benefit.
The way I did it was university, factory, quantum drive, resarch lab.


Empire layout:
==============
- I have 5 types of planets. Research, breeding, ship building, money making, intelligence.

- my standard systems have 1 breeding planet, 1 ship building planet and rest is research. Dedicated money making or intelligence planets are usually in systems where I dont own most planets.

- I think that having ship building capacity distributed across whole empire gives you greatest flexibility.
1) you build your capacity uniformly as you grow.
2) each system can quickly produce fighters/defending ships to kill enemy scouts/small fleets
3) if you need to attack or defend from unexpected direction, this layout allows you respond faster than ship producing planets near the border
4) loss of 1-2 system (which is to be expected if you are attacked from unexpected direction) wont hurt you critically in any area

- breeding planets are small planets with high food production. They are kept at population 2 by governor. Extra population is transported from there to other planets in system. When all other planets fill up, population is brought to ship building planet.

- ship bulding planets are as large as possible and with high production and farming outputs. Extra population gathers here, so they have military camps and academies to train idle military.

Governors and queues - managing large empire:
=============================================
- I'm using 7 basic generic governors 7 shared queues which can be combined to produce best results.

1.) basic governor
-------------------
- this governor handles all newly colonized planets, and serves as a core that is same for all my planets. He has these tasks:
a) if there is nothing to work on, switch production to basic queue.
b) convert stationed military to farmers
c) (usually disabled except in early times - draft military from pop. to man ships)
d) convert citizens to workers
e) if number of citizens is lower than 100% of the limit:
e1) if number of farmers is lower than 50% of pop.count convert workers to farmers
e2) if food surplus is lower than 0 convert worker to farmer
e3) if no production convert workers to farmers
f) make sure there is enough farmers to feed pop
g) if number of citizens is lower than 4 convert all to farmers
h) if production output is lower than 30 hurry production (adjust this according to your financial situation, or specify specific structures to hurry)
i) name planet after system

- this governor leaves all farmers if population is lower than 4. Otherwise it keeps 1/2 of pop on farmers. If there is nothing to work on, it changes all to farmers to fill planet asap.

2.) science governor
- this governor handles planet that are expected to produce science right now. He has these tasks:
a) run basic governor
b) if ther is no production swtich queue to science queue
c) convert citizens to workers
d) make sure there are enough farmers to feed population
e) if number of scientist is lower than 50% of pop count convert workers to scientists - change this ratio or disable it according to your present needs. If you need something researched quickly keep this rule enabled. Otherwise disable it for best long term results.
f) if currently no production convert workers to scientists

- this governor keeps keeps population on workers if there is something to do. If there is nothing to do, pop is changed to scientists. There is optional rule to keep some ratio of population on scientists (usefull in early days when you need to grow planet and research at once). It builds all that basic govenor builds + scientific queue.

3.) shipbuilding governor
- this governor handles ship building planets. His duties are:
a) run basic governor
b) convert citizens to workers
c) make sure there is enough food to feed them
d) if there is no queue switch queue to shipbuilding queue

4.) breeder governor
- this governor is for breeding planets. It first grows the planet using basic governor till it reaches +8 food per pop (leave it at +7 for early stages of game, +8 is only needed to overcome corruption)
a) if food output per farmers is lower than 8, run basic governor
b) if food output per farmer is lower than 8, hurry current production
c) if food production per farmers is higher than 7:
c1) convert citizens to farmers
c2) if number of pop is higher than 2, convert farmers to military

5.) conquered governor
- this is a temporary governor for newly conquered planets, his duties are to get basic defs and shipyard there asap and then switch to basic governor.
a) convert stationed military to workers
b) convert citiznes to workers
c) make sure there are enough farmers
d) if number of light turrets is lower than 1 and no production build light turret
c) if number of shipyards is lower than 1 and no production build shipyard (swap or disable these two rules if you need shipyard first to repair ships)
d) hurry current production
e) if there is no production, switch to basic governor

6.) future science
- this is governor for planets, that are destined to be scientific in the future, it keeps the planet on basic governor until basic queue is done (=50% of pop farmers) and then changes to science governor:
a) run basic governor
b) if there is no production switch governor to science

7.) future shipbuilder
- this is governor for planets, that are destined to be shipbuilding in the future
a) run basic governor
b) if there is no production switch governor to shipbuilder
18.03.2007 16:56 Licho is offline Send an Email to Licho Search for Posts by Licho Add Licho to your Buddy List
Licho Player-Rank: 2
Arms Farmers, and Farms Armor


Registration Date: 26.02.2006
Posts: 79

Thread Starter Thread Started by Licho
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- These governors are complemented by queues. However you can combine different queues with different governors to get some specific results.
Note that these queues are for advanced stage of game, you wont need so many farms in basic queue or so many factories and defenses in the early time.

You have to start with shorter queues (like 3x farmers for basic queue) and then expand it as your empire grows larger.

1.) basic queue
- this is stuff that is common for all my planets
a) #1 farm
b) #1 factory
c) #2 farm
d) #2 factory
e) #3 farm
f) #3 factory
g) #4 farm
h) #1 autofact
i) #5 farm
j) #2 autofact
k) #1 light turret
l) #2 heavy turret
m) #1 shield

2.) scientific queue
a) #1 farm
b) #1 factory
c) #2 farm
d) #2 factory
e) #1 uni
f) #3 farm
g) #3 factory
h) #2 uni
i) #1 science lab
j) #4 farm
k) #2 autofact
l) #1 light
m) #2 science labs
n) #4 university
o) #4 fact
p) #6 farm
q) #3 science lab
r) #5 university
s) #3 autofact
t) #5 fact
u) #6 university
v) #4 science lab

3.) shipbuilding queue
similar to basic queue but it continues with
j) #3 autofact
k) #6 farm
l) #1 shipyard
m) #1 light turret
n) #6 factory
o) #4 autofact
p) #1 military academy
q) #1 military camp
r) #7 farm
s) #8 factory

4.) fighter queue - this is queue for my shipbuilding planet - I assign that manually to planets that have extra population stored on them
a) infinite of my currently favored fighter ship type

5.) bomber queue - this is queue for my shipbuilding planet - I assign that manually to planets that have extra population stored on them
a) infinite of my currently favored bomber ship type

6.) intelligence queue - similar to shipbuilding but no military camps stuff and just intelligence agence and scans of various types

7.) "crap planet" queue - this is queue for wealth only planets. I switch to it manually leaving planets on basic governor.
This queue builds some extra autofacts over basic queue and then fills planet with factories.

Managing governors and queues:
==============================
- It should be pretty straightforward. Leave newly colonized or conquered planets on their default governors (basic and conquered).
- if you have whole system decide what planets are going to be what and assign breeder, future science and future shipbuilder governors.
- if you need some extra output now, switch planet manually directly to science or shipbuilder governor and/or change its shared queue.
- when breeder planets starts breeding (switches to pop 2) build transport ship and setup route to fill your remaining planets.
- when your planets fill up, set transport to only send population to shipbuilding planet
- if your shipbuilding planet runs low on population or you need money, switch it to wealth. Later when your shipbuilders are full with people, switch them to fighters or bombers queue or build troop ships there.

Admirals:
=========
- become familiar with admirals. I'm using several admirals. One transport for each system. Scouting admiral to scout my enemies, and 1-2 assualt admirals to carry on attacks.
Assault admirals should gather ships either of specific or from specific planets and assign them to fleet. Once you defeat primary enemy forces, all you need to do is to add targets to admiral's "attack planet's" rule.


Ship design tips:
=================
- try cloaked ships, it helps to mount a surprising attack especially in early days and it improves your scout's survivability
- against large heavy firepower try fleet full of light ships with high dmg/costs ratios accompanied by a fleet of heavy ships filled with shields and 1 small weapon. Enemy heavy firepower will target your shielded ships and your light ships will come out unharmed. Small ships have better dmg/costs and large ships have better hp/costs.
- run simulator before attacking planetary defenses or enemy fleets first time Smile
- try specialized ships to attack enemy breeding planets (I used that against astax in round 9 - destroyer class ship with troop module, bombs, light weapons shields and possibly cloaking. These ships were capable to capture enemy breeding planet alone and disrupt his economy. Psychological effect of this attack led to astax2 demise Smile
- do not split your fleets too much. Even non-attacking ships like bombers are usefull in ship to ship combat to serve as "meat shields" Smile
- try to use same desired speed for all your bomber and fighter ships through majority of the game. This allows you to use different designs old or new in same fleet without sacrificing efficiency of some ships by forcing them to run slower.

This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by Licho: 18.03.2007 23:43.

18.03.2007 16:57 Licho is offline Send an Email to Licho Search for Posts by Licho Add Licho to your Buddy List
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Cool, thanks for sharing Smile Smile
18.03.2007 18:50 bob_ninja is offline Send an Email to bob_ninja Search for Posts by bob_ninja Add bob_ninja to your Buddy List
Kazagistar Player-Rank: 1 Kazagistar is a male
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Well, I just ally with the people who take the time to over think the game like this Big Grin
Not that I am doing badly or anything. It's important to be a strong player with good fleets/techs/planets, but a good, loyal alliance is the most important part of all. It does not matter if you are number one ranked if number two through ten ally together against you.

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18.03.2007 18:56 Kazagistar is offline Send an Email to Kazagistar Search for Posts by Kazagistar Add Kazagistar to your Buddy List
gingerbill Player-Rank: 3
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nice post . Intresting read for me as im new to the game. thanks
18.03.2007 19:25 gingerbill is offline Send an Email to gingerbill Search for Posts by gingerbill Add gingerbill to your Buddy List
quickstrike Player-Rank: 2 quickstrike is a male
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Wow, nicely thought out. I probably won't use this since I have my own layout (governor science, growth, production)...simple 2-3 rule govenors Smile , and of course conditions to switch in between the govenors. I really like the cost vs. benefit of the auto factory and science labs. Great Job!

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Erwin [CS] Player-Rank: 2 Erwin [CS] is a male
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That's a really nice and detailed guide! I hope you don't mind if I make this is sticky thread for all players?

I would actually welcome more players to write down their way of playing and write a guide to playing SpaceCiv. I would even create a new manual section named "Players Guides", where experience players can give a detailed insight into the game.
18.03.2007 21:03 Erwin [CS] is offline Search for Posts by Erwin [CS] Add Erwin [CS] to your Buddy List
Licho Player-Rank: 2
Arms Farmers, and Farms Armor


Registration Date: 26.02.2006
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Thread Starter Thread Started by Licho
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Yeah, you are welcome :-)
I certainly don't mind it. I wanted to share some strategies to help newer players and perhaps give tips to some veterans.
The more people can play it well, the more fun it's going to be..
18.03.2007 23:43 Licho is offline Send an Email to Licho Search for Posts by Licho Add Licho to your Buddy List
Kazagistar Player-Rank: 1 Kazagistar is a male
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And the more active players the better.
Perhaps there could later be 1st timer galaxies and normal galaxies, to weed out the players who don't.
More challenge = more fun.
I just hope that not everyone thinks that this is the best or only way to play, because it's boring when everyone does the same thing.

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18.03.2007 23:58 Kazagistar is offline Send an Email to Kazagistar Search for Posts by Kazagistar Add Kazagistar to your Buddy List
Licho Player-Rank: 2
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Well you can be 100% sure it's not best Smile It's just the way I played 2 last galaxies. Some of the stuff I did have mathematical reasons, other is just my personal preference/intuition..

As in all similar games, knowing and adjusting to your opponent's doings should be path to victory and not some prescripted scenario.

I wanted to show the power of governors and queues, because I don't have to spend much time managing my empires. Lot of people seem to assume that you need to check every turn and that it becomes harder and more time consuming the bigger you grow.. opposite is true.. Big empires do only big decisions Smile

Most time is consumed during first 100 turns when you have to manually land colony ships, after that its just regural checking once per a day to add targets for admirals, setup newly conqured systems and check wealth balance.

This post has been edited 3 time(s), it was last edited by Licho: 19.03.2007 04:52.

19.03.2007 01:16 Licho is offline Send an Email to Licho Search for Posts by Licho Add Licho to your Buddy List
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very nice Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

i enjoyed reading your strategy and your reasons behind your choices. I have a question converning your factory vs auto factory etc comparisons though. I see where it becomes more efficient to build each building but that looks like it would apply perfectly to a planet that has infinite building space. What im saying is, where it might be productive to build a factory over an auto factory in some cases, it might not always be the most effective way to maximize production if you take into account how much space is left on the planet.
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Licho Player-Rank: 2
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Thread Starter Thread Started by Licho
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Yeah you are right. I tried to mention that briefly in the text. I just think that in early stages you should prefer speed of growth and not max capacity (at huge expenses).

Evn in late game It all depends on whether its really worth for you to invest so much time building 7th autofact (giving you marginal gain) when you can get a battleship instead and use it to capture fully productive planet.

For some very small or special purpose planets it might be desirable to just build autofacts, but most of my planets have enough room to use that default queue.
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chrisadamley Player-Rank: 3
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Wow Licho, that is definitely a very detailed way on how to play the game...way more in depth than i play....but to new players its probably helpful::

its pretty much the more galaxys u play the better u are gonna get, just like with anything else...you probaly wont win your very first galaxy...although im sure there are exceptiosn to this but maybe not........

Has anyone here conquered all there first time playing???

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Whoever won the very first galaxy must have
21.03.2007 06:29
chrisadamley Player-Rank: 3
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haha ya i suppose...besides that jeez Roll Eyes

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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by chrisadamley: 21.03.2007 07:26.

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Lol I'm just captain obvious, well he's my other alias.
21.03.2007 07:56
Kazagistar Player-Rank: 1 Kazagistar is a male
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The person who won Beta 3 was Erwin, and it was probably play tested before that, so I'd say that the only person who won on their first time was probably "test-dummy3" or something. LOL

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21.03.2007 14:25 Kazagistar is offline Send an Email to Kazagistar Search for Posts by Kazagistar Add Kazagistar to your Buddy List
Licho Player-Rank: 2
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Thread Starter Thread Started by Licho
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quote:

Has anyone here conquered all there first time playing???


Yeah, I did .. the galaxy 8 and Enkoli, another first-timer there ended second.

We allied against original top players there.
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Galaxy 7 was my first game and Galaxy 11 is my second.
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nicely done....

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