Basically the "leaders" of both teams(determined perhaps by fame/vote/activity) would be welcome to the live draft say 24 ticks prior to the round start. This can also be done for team galaxies with multiple teams(more than 2). If the "leader" cannot be online for the draft he may design a "ranking list" ahead of time. This is a list where the leader can rank the order he would pick each player in. In the "live draft" if he is not online or takes longer than 1 minute when it is his turn to choose a pick, the next top "ranked" player in his list will be chosen automatically. If the leader has not made a "ranking list" and is online at the "live draft" and "exceeds his time limit" then the highest fame player will be the default.
Basically at the beginning of the draft each leader will be assigned a pick number, 1 to n, at random. First round picks and all odd numbered ones are ordered 1 to n, Second round and even numbered ones from n to 1. (If anybody is familiar with fantasy sports leagues you will be familiar with this)
This would mean that galaxy signups would have to close 24 ticks prior to the game start. 12 ticks before the game start the galaxy would be reshuffled for the creation of these teams.
"leaders" should be the best top ranked players in SpaceCiv and have long time experience with the game. This method would also force the top players to not be on the same team. This could be chosen by the community, by fame, or by Erwin perhaps... or some combination of.
This would make it extremely fair and even in players, since the leaders would essentially pick their teams, rather than fame deciding, and therefore may decide on previous experience with certain players, team spirit, or other deciding factors, which cannot be determined by statistics to form their teams.
What do you guys think? I mean this is already a proven method of picking fair teams by fantasy leagues all over the world... it would easily work here.
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by The Phantom: 30.07.2008 13:20.
Registration Date: 26.12.2004
Posts: 8,573
Location: Vienna, Austria
RE: Even teams for team galaxy: live draft
That's not a bad idea!
I think we could even automatize this a bit more: The two designated leaders both can enter a web-interface where they rank every participating player according to their assessment how valuable these players are. So we end up with a "wish list" per team that has all players sorted by "importance".
Then once the moment of reshuffling has come, the code automatically processes these two lists, and in an alternating fashion assigns the players to the teams, according to that wish list. If the "top most player" has already been taken by the other team, it picks the "next best one" from the list.
We could even go one step further and have the two leaders voted for as well: all participating players can vote their three highest ranked players before. The two players that get the most votes are designated leaders. After the leader is decided, they can set up their "wish list".
Registration Date: 04.08.2007
Posts: 207
Location: USA
I think leaders that are pick should have an option of declining.
Let's say I'm pick as a leader but I will not be on for the first 2 days of the galaxy. I should be able to decline the offer of leader. This will have two active leaders on at the beginning when it is need it the most.
Well I do agree with Halburn, that a designated leader should have the option of declining the title.
Which the next person would be the leader.
The only problem I have with voting... is there are a lot of people in galaxies not familiar with who is good/who isn't good or experienced.
In order to be qualified to even be considered for leadership there should be qualifications like:
1) activity
2) experience and ability with SpaceCiv
3) longevity(so he has experienced himself with several players in the past)
and perhaps a few others.... once down to these qualifications then a vote may be started.
If you qualify to be a leader, determined by those qualifications, on signup/first login to the galaxy you would be given the option to be added to the candidate list for leader, or decline.
That way the vote for leaders in game would be only for people who qualify to be leaders and want to be a leader.
The vote screen should popup when you first login on signup, and you should also have an option to not vote now, and be able to vote later, so if you are unexperienced/noob you may just not put a vote in at all if you like, or vote at a later time, prior to the draft.
At 36 hours prior to game start the "leaders" are chosen, and galaxy is closed for signups.
Then they have 24 hours to form their wish lists, which the default if any player is left unchosen is after their last chosen player ranking, and then ranked by fame by default.
At 12 hours prior to game start, the leaders are given their pick orders by the computer, and then the computer follows the pick order/rounds explained above to chose the players from this which list, which it always chooses the next best player available from your list for your pick, and continues until all players have been assigned a team.
Then after the automatic draft is completed it then reshuffles the galaxy according to teams, and you have 12 hours to see which team mates you have and plan things with your team members.
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by The Phantom: 30.07.2008 14:25.
Registration Date: 26.12.2004
Posts: 8,573
Location: Vienna, Austria
I agree with you guys there.
Also I think maybe "leader" is the wrong name. It's more like "all players pick #1 and #2 players", and then "the #1 and #2 players pick the rest". The #1 and #2 are just chosen to setup the "wish list". That does not mean that they are also obliged to "lead" the team. Hence it is also irrelevant if you are online/active during the first 2 days of the galaxy. The whole process is just there to receive two equally balanced teams.
But I agree, one should be able to decline being voted as the "#1 #2 player", if he knows he's not going to be online to setup that wish list.
Registration Date: 02.07.2008
Posts: 34
Location: Australia
very good idea i like it but i would like to add my bit. when voting for leaders it should be done from most wanted to least wanted not just him and him only.
True I guess... the people who chose the list don't necessarily need to be leaders, just qualified people who have played enough games to know who is good/who isn't according to them.
I don't think we'll have a problem about when/what team a person got on or what pick, since knowledge of this should be confidential to the people drafting their wish lists, and they aren't public. So you could have been the first choice or last choice and you'd never know.
I think, before such additions we are must try gals with not only two, but three and more teams.
That's can be next gal.
Also, in it must be a place for thouse who will play on he's own.
With player not bounded to any team.
And about voting.
For first time I suggest more simple and random aproach.
When joining players will have a choice only from
differently named commands, and can see only number of people in them allready joined.
Also... there must be antibonus -- commands with more people will be delayed to start.
Registration Date: 25.06.2007
Posts: 642
Location: Inside your mind? Or in your heart?
I like the idea of live draft *a lot*. Also voting for the pickers sounds reasonable.
One thing that would be a useful addition: if a player is picked by neither team picker, then he won't be able to play in that team galaxy.
What's the idea? Well, there are certain players (you know who you are) who despite experience and activity resent the concept of cooperation and go on only about their own goals, no sharing whatsoever. Once you know them, you don't want to pick them for a second team galaxy. Your opponent team does not want to pick them, either. As this is about team galaxies, no team should be forced to pick someone reputed to refuse team work.
Those people can still play regular galaxies.
Registration Date: 25.06.2007
Posts: 642
Location: Inside your mind? Or in your heart?
quote:
Originally posted by Iggertcivilisations
very good idea i like it but i would like to add my bit. when voting for leaders it should be done from most wanted to least wanted not just him and him only.
sorta like voting for government that system
offtopic-warning
In which country do they do this? I would love if I could vote like that in Austria. Even better I'd like to have a fixed amount of "votes" to distribute amongst my candidates however I see fit.
Registration Date: 26.12.2004
Posts: 8,573
Location: Vienna, Austria
quote:
Originally posted by azazel
One thing that would be a useful addition: if a player is picked by neither team picker, then he won't be able to play in that team galaxy.
That will be difficult and controversial... A team player that refused to "team play"? How can you stop that from happening? Maybe they signed up to the Team Galaxy without knowing that acting as a team would be the number one priority (in order for the team to win). But denying them to play in that galaxy would be harsh, and I can just imagine what sort of outrage that would cause.
I can't agree with that idea. And if there are team players that act that way (on purpose or otherwise), then we can just hope that by random chance the number of such players is about equally high on both sides.
Registration Date: 02.07.2008
Posts: 34
Location: Australia
quote:
Originally posted by azazel
quote:
Originally posted by Iggertcivilisations
very good idea i like it but i would like to add my bit. when voting for leaders it should be done from most wanted to least wanted not just him and him only.
sorta like voting for government that system
offtopic-warning
In which country do they do this? I would love if I could vote like that in Austria. Even better I'd like to have a fixed amount of "votes" to distribute amongst my candidates however I see fit.
Australia we use preferential voting though it's compulsory.
Originally posted by azazel
One thing that would be a useful addition: if a player is picked by neither team picker, then he won't be able to play in that team galaxy.
What's the idea? Well, there are certain players (you know who you are) who despite experience and activity resent the concept of cooperation and go on only about their own goals, no sharing whatsoever. Once you know them, you don't want to pick them for a second team galaxy. Your opponent team does not want to pick them, either. As this is about team galaxies, no team should be forced to pick someone reputed to refuse team work.
Those people can still play regular galaxies.
Cheers,
Azazel
I have to agree with Erwin... even if players don't want to be "team players" you can't just kick them out.
However knowing these kind of things ahead of time, as a "picker" you could just put them at the very bottom of your wish list. Therefore putting better "team players" on top should at least guarantee that you get your team players prior to getting any non-team players. If both teams made their lists the same way, then it should be even the number of team players and good players with lone wolves on each team.
However I don't agree on booting someone from a game they signed up on. I mean I could be booted depending who are the pickers because of my "spy on enemy forum" thingy... or other reasons....
Maybe a tax system. So if people go lone wolf, they get taxed, so they can still play but they are nudged into playing team.
really? and who would judge if someone went lone wolf......there are many different levels of cooperation.......you cant just decide if someone is working good enough with you and penalize them for it
__________________ ----Its better to die on your feet than live on your knees----
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by chrisadamley: 01.08.2008 16:17.
yeah, I have to disagree with the tax system idea also. If people don't want to be team players that is thier choice. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.
Take zoot for example. He didn't join with anyone else, or talk most of the entire team galaxy, but now his fleet is out there taking planets left and right and thoroughly annoying the other team.
It's an online game, you will get all sorts of players. It's just a thing you have to deal with in an online environment.
EDIT: As a side note, I don't really like the live draft idea. I would rather see it as a form the leader fills out that has all the names of the players in the galaxy. The order they list their choices becomes the importance of that pick, and therefore the determining factor. (IE: The first one on the list is the most important)
Where this could run into problems is if the two leaders select some people in the same spots. In this case, perhaps the pick can be skipped and after the list is finished the program goes back and adds up the fame total for the two lists. The ones with the lowest fame total overall will get their pick first from the matching spots. And then it alternates down the other matching picks.
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Ceejay9: 01.08.2008 18:55.
EDIT: As a side note, I don't really like the live draft idea. I would rather see it as a form the leader fills out that has all the names of the players in the galaxy. The order they list their choices becomes the importance of that pick, and therefore the determining factor. (IE: The first one on the list is the most important)
Don't know where you are getting at... that is exactly what this idea has boggled down to, if you read Erwin's and the rest of the posts above.
quote:
Originally posted by Ceejay9
Where this could run into problems is if the two leaders select some people in the same spots. In this case, perhaps the pick can be skipped and after the list is finished the program goes back and adds up the fame total for the two lists. The ones with the lowest fame total overall will get their pick first from the matching spots. And then it alternates down the other matching picks.
In drafts in other fantasy leagues, there is an order to the picks.
First each leader is given a pick number randomly from 1 to n.
Then the first round pick starts and the person with pick 1 gets his top player available from his list, then 2 then 3 all the way to n. This way each leader has 1 player on their team.
In order to make things even the 2nd round is in reverse order. Meaning that first choice in that round goes to pick n, then n-1, all the way to 1.
Then this alternating cycle continues until there are no remaining players.
This breaks even choices already... so I don't get your point... plus I think fame, which is what was used in this galaxy, has already been the point of the reason for changing it to this, is it doesn't represent good/bad as good as this.
Plus this is used year after year for soccer, football, basketball, hockey, and lots of other sports fantasy leagues all over the world, on how the "entries" pick their players, and usually the teams end up quite even. The reverse order thing is what makes things even. Because you may get pick 1, and therefore get the top player on your list automatically but then you have to wait until all other players get their first 2 players before you get your 2nd player... so it evens out.
This post has been edited 3 time(s), it was last edited by The Phantom: 01.08.2008 20:02.
Well, as for how the draft is done, it doesn't really matter to me. I don't do fantasy drafts, so if it's a proven method already in use, great, less work to worry about then.
As for what I was getting at, I suppose that would be agreeing with the people who posted above me, with my own thought process thrown in as a twist.
