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DarkLStrike Player-Rank: 3
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[Idea] Military Classes Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

Intro:

The current ground combat system that we have now is quite monotone and the outcome of battles ultimately boils down to who’s got the most high ranked military. I would like to propose a system that can effectively eliminate these problems. I believe, by introducing a rock-paper-scissors battle system, we can add an extra layer of strategy in SpaceCiv ground combat. We can easily achieve that by being able to class military personnel (similar to classing citizens). I acknowledge the fact that this is extremely complicated and will take a lot of time to implement. I would be happy if Erwin considers this as a long-term project with a medium priority rating on the to-do list.

Idea:

A player may choose to specialize his soldiers when they reach a specific rank: rank 3 for tier one units and rank 4 to 5 for tier two. This is can only be done on planets with Military Academies and is done similarly to classing citizens. After classing, the soldiers will retain their rank and ranking bonuses, however, each different class will receive their own special abilities and special bonuses. Classed military personnel can no longer pilot ships.

Military Classes:

The percentages mentioned below are relative to the health and firepower of a regular soldier. Rank bonuses are exponentially cumulative to combat statistics and special bonuses. Special bonus statistics replaces regular combat statistics when the condition is fulfilled. (e.g. if a unit has a normal 120% firepower and a special bonus of 150% firepower in planetary assaults, during planetary assaults, this unit’s firepower would be 150%.)

Tier zero:

Regular
Combat statistics: 100% health, 100% firepower
Special bonuses: none

Tier one:

Shock Trooper
Short form: Shock
Classed from: rank 3 Regulars
Combat statistics: 120% firepower, 80% health
Special bonuses:
- 150% firepower during planetary invasions.

Heavy Infantry
Short form: Heavy
Classed from: rank 3 Regulars
Combat statistics: 70% firepower, 120% health
Special bonuses:
- 160% health during planetary defense.
- 130% vulnerability from Regulars (sustains 30% more damage from Regulars).
- 150% vulnerability from Special Operatives (tier 2 unit).
- 100% firepower against Shock Troopers.

Tier two:

Special Operative
Short form: Special
Classed from: rank 4 Regulars
Combat statistics: 110% firepower, 100% health
Special bonuses:
- 80% health during planetary defense.

Elite Conqueror
Short form: Elite
Classed from: rank 5 Shock Troopers
Combat statistics: 150% firepower, 80% health
Special bonuses:
- 200% firepower, 90% health during planetary invasions.
- 230% firepower against Regulars and Heavy Infantry during planetary invasions.

Imperial Guard
Short form: Imperial
Classed from: rank 5 Heavy Infantry
Combat statistics: 80% firepower, 150% health
Special bonuses:
- 90% firepower, 230% health during planet defense.
- 120% firepower against Shock Troopers and Elite Conquerors.
- 120% vulnerability from Regulars.
- 150% vulnerability from Special Operatives.

Military Class Tree:



Graphics Comparison:



Proposed Military Classing Technique:



Graphics with Alpha Channel:

http://encodable.com/cgi-bin/filechucker...lphachannel.psd

-----

This creates a rock-paper-scissors style battle system for ground combat.
Assault Type counters Regular Type
Defensive Type counters Assault Type
and Regular Type counters Defensive Type

Comments, suggestions and constructive criticism are welcome.

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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by DarkLStrike: 30.09.2008 18:35.

30.09.2008 03:30 DarkLStrike is offline Send an Email to DarkLStrike Search for Posts by DarkLStrike Add DarkLStrike to your Buddy List
uncountednose Player-Rank: 3 uncountednose is a male
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loving the graphics, i guess making your own icons is replacing charts and screenshots. Tongue i really like the idea of having specialized military. i think that maybe if you were to simplify the suggestion it might actually get implemented in the forseeable future. before i go any further i want to say that i really like what you laid out and in no way do i think what i am going to say is superior, just simpler. would be nice to add a little more depth to ground combat but spaceciv is primarily a space game blah blah blah... Wink

basically i would say only 3 types of military with fewer modifiers.

regulars- stay as they are

shock troops- same health as regulars, reduced firepower during defense, increased during attacks. no effect on loyalty(or resistance), cannot crew ships. requires military academy to create.

heavy infantry- same health as regulars, reduced firepower during attacks, increased during defense. no effect on loyalty(or resistance), cannot crew ships. requires military academy to create.

make it where there is a drop down box in the food slider area so that the new troop types are created not converted. this requires more commitment in my opinion.

well, i hope you can forgive me for gutting your suggestion.

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30.09.2008 05:11 uncountednose is offline Send an Email to uncountednose Search for Posts by uncountednose Add uncountednose to your Buddy List
The Phantom Player-Rank: 4 The Phantom is a male
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Wow I really love this suggestion!!!

I do suggest to add a research branch for this as well, so we'll have to research these specializations in order to use them.

I suggest the following:
Advanced Networking(due to Military Camp) -> Shock Trooper -> Elite Infantry -> Special Operative -> Elite Conquerer -> Imperial Guard

There should be Advanced Tactics(Military Academy) as a second prerequisite to Elite Conquerer.

But other than the research order proposal, this looks cool!!!

Perhaps also another building in Deep Space tech to make training specialized military easier/faster would be nice as well!

And a level 6 specialization which would have Deep-Space and Imperial Guard as a prerequesite. The Ultimate guy!!!
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EmperorDano Player-Rank: 1 EmperorDano is a male
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actually regular is tier 1, shock and heavy tier 2, and special ops imperial guard and elite conquerer are tier 3.

i like the idea but why have you made them so... vunerable? make shock get boosts for attacking and get penalties for defense, heavy get boosts for defending and penalties for attacking and so on. make special ops have the ability to go onto a planet and destroy a building at random with like 10% (or more) possibility with 40%(or more) possibility of being caught.

idk why you gave heavy infantry more health... but take more damage... seems like a waste.

also why not tier 2 (by my defination >.> tier 1 for you i guess) need a military camp and the tier 3s (tier 2 for you >.>) need military academy?

*Edit* love the graphics for it btw

This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by EmperorDano: 30.09.2008 07:05.

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Trantor Player-Rank: 2
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I love the way it is presented with graphics and all.
30.09.2008 07:34 Trantor is offline Send an Email to Trantor Search for Posts by Trantor Add Trantor to your Buddy List
jackjack Player-Rank: 2
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the detail will be lost with the new little icons

like the idea, but couldn't this be scaled up to ships?

I like the loyalty idea, but the ground combat seems an unnecessary complication.

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DarkLStrike Player-Rank: 3
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Thread Starter Thread Started by DarkLStrike
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Thanks for the comments guys.

Just to put the idea into perspective, if a regular military has the stats:

50 firepower
100 health

Then the base stats of the suggested military classes will be:

Regular:
50 firepower, 100 health, all situations
65 firepower against Heavy
60 firepower against Imperial

Shock:
75 firepower, 80 health during planetary invasions
60 firepower, 80 health during planetary defenses

Heavy:
35 firepower, 120 health during planetary invasions
35 firepower, 160 health during planetary defenses
50 firepower against Shock

Special:
55 firepower, 100 health during planetary invasions
55 firepower, 80 health during planetary defenses
83 firepower against Heavy and Imperial

Elite:
100 firepower, 90 health during planetary invasions
75 firepower, 80 health during planetary defenses
115 firepower against Regular and Heavy during planetary invasions

Imperial:
40 firepower, 150 health during planetary invasions
45 firepower, 230 health during planetary defenses
54 firepower against Shock and Elite

---

uncountednose's suggestion of condensing them all into two additional classes is doable. Though I would still retain the rock-paper-scissors scheme of: Aggressive > Regular > Defensive > Aggressive.

Shock troopers should have more firepower in exchange for less health and Heavy infantry should sacrifice firepower for more health. This is because during planetary assaults, you want to eliminate opposing forces as fast as possible and during planetary defenses, you want to survive as long as possible.

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Earendel Player-Rank: 2 Earendel is a male
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I said I’d post this, so here it is:

Ground Combat Test.zip
Oh yeah, the zip file contains a flash file (.swf). You can open it with something like internet explorer... assuming you have flash player installed.

I suppose I should explain what it is before I get grilled on it.
Firstly, it’s not finished!

It is just a test for the ground-work on making specialist troops effective in combat WITHOUT relying on abstract bonuses and penalties applied to the troops in various situations. The next step would be to give the different types of troops balanced special abilities (like more hp, less firepower), but that’s not what this test is about.

The point of all this is a real strategic element to ground combat.

In a defending situation, the standard strategy is to have a balanced defence. This is the best defence to have on average but there’s not much strategy if this is always the best option. If the attacker gets an advantage by choosing only one type of attacking troop type (the first requirement), then that is what they will try to do. Consequently, if the defender prepares a specialised defence to counter the threat, they can easily win with a much smaller force.

That kind of system gives you a rock-paper-scissors strategy in both the strategy that you adopt (un-balanced or balanced) and the type troops that you choose.

This dynamic is achieved by each troop type doing a type of damage, and being vulnerable to a type of damage. The specifics are actually very simple:

> Specialist troops take less regular damage.
> Red troops take more blue damage
> Green troops take more red damage
> Blue troops take more green damage

That’s it. They all have the same total health and do the same base damage. Simple.

It’s worth noting that the defending side fires first.

Something to try:

Give both sides the same number of troops, but give one side balanced troops, and give the other side only one type of troop and see who wins. Then try the battle again but change a few troops from the balanced side to troops that are good vs the attacking side’s troops.

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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Earendel: 13.05.2009 22:04.

13.05.2009 21:18 Earendel is offline Send an Email to Earendel Homepage of Earendel Search for Posts by Earendel Add Earendel to your Buddy List
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I like the original idea, but I think that the elite conquerer and the imperial guards are unnecessary. They just make the game more complex without adding anything.

Great idea. Rock, paper, scissors is a great model.

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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Green: 14.05.2009 04:32.

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quote:
Originally posted by Green
I like the original idea, but I think that the elite conquerer and the imperial guards are unnecessary. They just make the game more complex without adding anything.


Not true at all... a new ground combat system could add whole new layers of micromanagment which could evenyually get their own governors. No, wait... not governors, and obviously not admirals... they'd be generals! Yeah, that's the ticket! Then you could get extra bonuses for having a certain amount of generals at a planet, but only if they have their own ship. And the strength of the General bonus would depend on the rank of the troops! Yeah... then the Imperial Guards could be his bodyguards, but only if it's not your home planet. Wow, now this is sounding really cool....

Neutral

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Erwin [CS] Player-Rank: 2 Erwin [CS] is a male
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It could be a nice addition, certainly adds more strategy. But it complicates things too, which is something we definitely don't want in starter galaxies. It should be a custom galaxy feature, possibly only available in premium galaxies - for those hard core strategists among you...

Complications that come to mind are, you sent your fleets into enemy territories, scan the enemy's planets, and find out that you got the wrong combination of troopers. So you want to send a specific combination in. How do you do that? Right now all troopers in orbit are invading the planet. So that requires an additional interface... I don't even want to think about if someone requests to have the ability to automate this, by Admirals (etc)...
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quote:
Originally posted by Erwin [CS]
It should be a custom galaxy feature, possibly only available in premium galaxies - for those hard core strategists among you...


LOL Big Grin LOL LOL Shocked

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