Registration Date: 04.10.2009
Posts: 1,589
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Rule 3 bothers me..
Is not clear is when the low score player becomes the aggressor. I mean the higher score player would have to wait for the aggressive action to take place, which is bad. For instance he would not be able to defend with ships.
Total war sounds good, there will be no problem with overlapping alliances. And something like two rank 3 players allying. I'd change the rule to not making any treaties, so it's either "neutral" or "war" (this way rule 3 goes bye bye), and no intel-sharing so the neutrals can't help stronger empires.
"All must have war status against each other"- And not be able to send 1 ship 70 units from my planet? The "regular", controlled by rep. bonus and penality way is better.
"It's still allowed to talk to eachother and make coordinated attacks"- I find that unfair, if You declare war to someone, You don't coordinate attacks on other player with that empire.
"Defense admirals that attack anything within range is not allowed"- Since normally it's the smaller's empire choice when they declare war, there is no need to fear of shooting down anything by accident.
"The 50% rule should be evaluated constantly"- I try to imagine managing planets, giving orders to ships (+no defence admirals? :F), reading reports, messages and worrying if the empire that decided to go on biobomb-rampage on me is 51% or 49% score and I'm allowed to attack. -____- I didn't see any player being completly terminated, well, except for Speedy who grabbed something like 40 planets and ended with 4. Better make it so that You can "please for mercy" and return to being neutral (short peace treaty, after 20 turns it's non binding I guess) If the stronger empire agrees ofc.
@tingling- a regular speed galaxy, but before it begins we share information who is who and where we are, so we can make balanced teams?
__________________ Conquers his own planets and bombs the suns.
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by darthblade: 12.09.2011 17:26.
A speed team galaxy sounds like a pure nightmare. Imagine having 3 or 4 people screaming info and reports at each other while trying to actually manage their empire at the same time. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
I'm not sure I like house rules either. Just think the play is too hectic to sit and evaluate rules and much less discuss what to do with people who didn't follow the rules.
Originally posted by Nongolf
Imagine having 3 or 4 people screaming info and reports at each other while trying to actually manage their empire at the same time. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
It's called Team Speak. And I think if we make 3 or 4 separate rooms on a free server it will work fine. I have some experience coordinating a real time castle defence (Lineage 2
) with 80 people + other alliances. If someone is not an english master (I'm not, I sound like a russian mafia member), he can leave the talking to "alliance leader" and listen.
__________________ Conquers his own planets and bombs the suns.
Registration Date: 20.06.2009
Posts: 98
Location: Sweden
Team Speed Galaxy:
Ticks go way to fast for me to cope with that.
House Rules, comments:
I agree with dartblade about allowing neutral status. Makes it simpler, intercept admirals can then be used.
I also like the idea of having the one that are under attack must self send a "cease offer request" as soon as his score is below 50% of the aggressor and he want and end. Also makes it simpler, the aggressor then doesn't have to constantly look at the score.
50% lower score is a big difference in score, look at the replay it doesn't really remove any viable target that you should have in your foe list... It's just a counter measure for having reputation modifier 0.
@mizzi
The 3rd rule might sound like a problem, but is it?
If you have double the score you can let him take 1 planet before reacting. It would be the same in a normal galaxy (score break even 20%, reputation modifier 1), if a half your score player is moving around in your territorium it would cost you -3% in reputation to declare war and shot him down. Typically better to let him make the war declaration.
You can fleet defend passivly by placing a fleet on a planet or use defense admiral.
@dartblade
If someone attacks you he is the aggressor, and the 50% rule is completly void, you are free to counter attack with full force, even fully consume him.
The problem with normal/high reputation is:
1. all attacking a top player gets high reputation boost, and can use the positive balance to drop bio bombs or attack someone smaller. If part of 5 player gang attack you don't have to fear a counter attack
2. you can make war reservations, i.e. just shot down 1 early scout, then you are free to consume that player later on
The problem with reputation modifier 0 is:
1. as big score player you can just consume your neighbour (i guess not fun for low score player, and not fun for other high score players since that player get many planets for free)
2. in near end of the galaxy, probably there will be one player that has a very strong fleet, with reputation modifier 0 he can just fly around and destroy all fleets, not fun for anyone
@nongolf
Shouldn't be so hard to follow the rules, you just have to think what score the other have before you declare war (if we allow neutral status like dartblade suggested) and not make any treaties to share resources or cash.
This post has been edited 3 time(s), it was last edited by bytehunter: 12.09.2011 18:46.
Registration Date: 20.06.2009
Posts: 98
Location: Sweden
House Rules v2
Intention: All War Speed Galaxy, all are at war with each other and fight on their own
House Rules:
Only allowed to declare war towards player with half (50%) of your own score or more
Cease Fire treaty must be accepted if score is half (50%) of your own
No peace treaty and no alliance treaty allowed
No other treaties allowed (no resource, no money, no map sharing)
To make the above simpler to read: only allowed treaties: "Declare War" and "Cease Fire"
If house rules above are broken you will be flamed in forum (galaxy replay can show that rules were broken)
Spirit of the Galaxy:
Text communication about cordinated war plans are not encouraged by the spirit of the galaxy, but can't be enforced
Combining fleets for offensive manouvers are not encouraged by the spirit of the galaxy, but can happen by mistake so it can thus not be enforced if it happens once or twice
Galaxy settings:
Reputation Multiplier = 0
This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by bytehunter: 12.09.2011 20:55.
Speed TG is manageable if teams have some time(like 3 days) for initial preparation(after last reshuffle) and then use TeamSpeak(ot other program like Ventrilo)nAlso TeamLeader must have privilage to Mute other members of his team.(just in case that someone start screaming). I belivie that CS is too complex for kids(mental state, not age).
Also Micromanagement is mostly done by governors, isn't it?
Speed galaxy is short term galaxy(2 evenings). So it doesn't really need 'savethenewbie' rules. Noone is losing 2-3 month effort. Also this might involve more early-mid gamplay becouse noone would like others to grow too much.
And all in all still 3 makes you pray for hot-headed newbie nearby. Just provoke him to attack you and you can have all his planets.... Also what's the diffrence who started very long war that takes lost of casualites and effort? And you should change your definiton that only conquering planets is not allowed. And define that attacking ships/fleets within your area is not aggresive action(you should be able to shot fown scouts freely always. As well as instecept any invasion fleet near your systems).
Solution to overgrowing single player:
Set reputation mod 0 and corruption mod 2. As soon as top player grow too much he's going hurt himself with empire-wide corruption.
FFA games are all about temporary alliances. Just give whole prize to one player and nothing for rest. If there's no communication/alliances/betrayals then it's just a luck.
Is there a way to "cease fire" without making a peace treaty?
Btw. what about a situation when a <50% score player breaks the "cease fire" treaty twice, or even 3 times, backstabs you, and than asks for peace again? Or took your only radioactives planet and asks for peace 1 turn later?
Too many rules and the fun will be gone :F
@xmer- I don't think it's necessary, If 1 player grows too much, others might want to get reputation and his planets. With all those overcomplicated rules and corruption mod It will not be possible to attack or conquer planets from the enemy. There is no need to protect some newbies from getting pwnd, I'd join for another one with same settings like last time.
__________________ Conquers his own planets and bombs the suns.
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by darthblade: 12.09.2011 21:31.
BTW I'm suprised that you are not using house rule that disallow 'FleetSpliting'. As it is one of most gamebreaking exploits with no counter and huge profit.
Registration Date: 20.06.2009
Posts: 98
Location: Sweden
House Rules v3
Clarification Rule #2: Cease Fire can not be requested by the aggresor (the one that declared war)
@darthblade: Cease Fire is a special diplomatic agreement that is possible to choose when you are at war
@xmer: Corruption Multiplier 2 i don't like, it should be rewarding to grow by grabbing others planets
@xmer: Scouts from low score empires are no big issue, since no one share line of sight
@xmer: Agree, diplomacy is great in ordinary galaxies, but in a speed galaxy. There is not plenty of time left for negotiations.
@xmer: FleetSplitting is part of the game and completly ok, it is harder tactic in a speed galaxy since fleets can travel with speeds way more than possible scan range (twice the ship speed)
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by bytehunter: 12.09.2011 21:57.
Fleet splitting is more gamebreaking than eating small players.
Reasons why Fleet spliting is exploit:
1. uncounterable, if you teamsplit 1 min before turn your oponent can't do anything about it.
2. Makes players to play near every end of turn(well it's issue in regular galaxies)
3. Huge profits: You can avoid ANY enemy fleet just by sacrificing(or just retreating with) 2 ships.
4. It's not inteded by game genre/game design. Turn based games require players to log once per turn at any time of turn to fully manage his turn.
5. Extremly easy to manage on Fleet Spliting side.
There's no easy to fix with gamecode(especially when game is not developed). And it can be just disallowed by 'House rule'.
Even with corruption mod 2 you are going on plus up to 80(around) planets(well... counting that new planets are fully developed) also you are getting cheaper military with every new planet.
Registration Date: 20.06.2009
Posts: 98
Location: Sweden
No House Rules
Judging by the forum posts the interest for a speed galaxy with my proposal for house rules doesn't seem to draw big positive attention. Only mizzi and darthblade has showed interest, but they are open for a speed galaxy of any kind.
My conclusion is therfore that it's best to drop the idea of house rules and just open up another speed galaxy without any special house rules (we need as many participants as possible), tingeling expresed interest in another thread.
Fleet splitting is not gamebreaking. All you need is faster ships and suddenly you can chase everything down.
Fleet splitting does beat the 'dumb' one big slow fleet of doom strat and allows an active and intelligent player to never lose a ship to an opponent that designed their ships poorly.
Furthermore, any two fleets of equal speed can always avoid the engagement. The truth is, a slow fleet is terrible, because you will never ever EVER get to destroy an opposing fleet with it. An active opponent with faster ships avoid every engagement until they've gathered a strong enough force to beat you.
Without fleet splitting and circling back with faster ships to retake planets there would be no way to beat a superior force. You might as well have 'ship' lanes like they do in older games that force fights between rival fleets.
Now I do agree with the idea that Fleet Splitting and other 'changing' course strats may break the current design of the game (1 hour ticks). They reward active players and give a huge advantage to people who can be online every tick.
Honestly, I'm beginning to think that we should go back to the 1-hour framework because:
1) it's more appealing to newer players
2) it prevents fleet splitting and other super complicated strats
3) it will drive anyone who can out micro an opponent crazy.
It's either that or all galaxies are 4-6 hour ticks. Because honestly, who wants to play against someone who splits their fleets every time you try to engage them and then who intercepts your forces while you sleep. It's awful.
__________________ Cheers,
The Huntress
Current Mood: Less Annoyed
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Huntress: 12.09.2011 23:26.
'Fleet spliting' definition
by 'fleet spliting' i mean spliting huge fleet into many 1-3 ships fleets to make other player unable to target all your ships. If oponent player have time then he could easily target all your ships. one by one, but you split 'just before end of turn' so he can't react.
Outmanuvering oponent is not same as 'fleet spliting'. You can use scouts to locate slower oponent fleet and then raid oponent systems one by one(sometime only 1-2 planets in system) and move forward all time.
Also you won't tell me that it's correct behavior:
1. Oponent have attack on your Fleet
2. You remove all except 2 ships from you fleet.
3. you set retreat order for that 2 ships
4. you set old order for rest of your fleet(x*single ship)
5. On Tick Oponent fleet follow that 2 ships fleet and let rest slip thourgh defence.
@1h ticks
2. It doesn't prevent Fleet spliting. Managing splited fleet is quite easy.
3. good govs outmicro nearly all oponents. Govs NEVER sleep, never go out with friends etc.
@bytehunter
It's just me. I'm assaulting every idea to check if it can defend itself. (Well unless it's mine idea ofc, in that case i defend it with all arguments i could think of)
Registration Date: 04.10.2009
Posts: 1,589
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
RE: No House Rules
quote:
Originally posted by bytehunter
Judging by the forum posts the interest for a speed galaxy with my proposal for house rules doesn't seem to draw big positive attention. Only mizzi and darthblade has showed interest, but they are open for a speed galaxy of any kind.
My conclusion is therfore that it's best to drop the idea of house rules and just open up another speed galaxy without any special house rules (we need as many participants as possible), tingeling expresed interest in another thread.
I herby withdraw from the discussion
There is something I would agree with. Limit biobmbing in speed gal. I know I was the one who did it, but with such a small amount of planets, biobombing is just too powerful. So maybe max 5 biobombs dropped per player.
I don't want this to seem that I want to avoid getting biobombed in the next galaxy
Registration Date: 20.06.2009
Posts: 98
Location: Sweden
You are more experienced, better if you set it up
I think the galaxy size was good
It was nice post that you sent out with the time schedule, send it out again when we are getting closer, 15 minutes before everybody must be logged in, and 10 minutes before start everything will reset and you will get disconnected (only govenors remain loaded)
This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by bytehunter: 14.09.2011 09:10.
) with 80 people + other alliances. If someone is not an english master (I'm not, I sound like a russian mafia member), he can leave the talking to "alliance leader" and listen.
